Derr Dunes
The dunes are a harsh, barren wasteland where only the toughest of mice can survive. The Derr Tribe take advantage of their ability to survive and navigate in such a dangerous terrain as a defensive strength which allows them to maximize their offensive abilities. Use of a Physical trap is highly recommended when hunting for the Derr.
The Derr Dunes is the Physical area of the Tribal Isles, it’s a great place to earn gold, but can be unforgiving to those without the best cheese and traps.
In this article we present you with some of the results from our survey, as well as some theories and strategies to help you hunt in this location.
Cheese & Mice
Here is a breakdown of the base attraction rates and mouse populations seen with various cheese.
| Brie | Crunchy | Gouda | Super Brie | |
| Black Widow | 0.15% | 0.16% | 0.12% | 0.25% |
| Derr Chieftain | 7.63% | |||
| Gladiator | 31.27% | |||
| Grunt | 11.86% | 11.68% | 11.86% | |
| Guardian | 60.94% | |||
| Healer | 7.79% | 7.98% | 7.83% | |
| Mintaka | 16.14% | 15.86% | 15.91% | |
| Renegade | 16.19% | 16.22% | 16.00% | |
| Seer | 16.38% | 16.07% | 16.17% | |
| Spellbinder | 15.51% | 16.08% | 16.06% | |
| Trailblazer | 7.98% | 7.84% | 8.03% | |
| Wordsmith | 7.99% | 8.16% | 7.89% | |
| Hunts Submitted | 22,972 | 28,403 | 38,410 | 33,511 |
| Base Attraction Rate | 56.99% | 98.74% | 69.86% | 98.89% |
Crunchy is the only cheese to use when going after the “Big Three” in Derr, but we can see from the populations of the other mice that there doesn’t seem to be a preference for any of the three cheese, as such, your only choice for cheese will be balancing cost with attraction rates.
Brie does have a very low base attraction rate in the Derr Dunes, however due to the high gold rewards of the mice it can still turn a nice profit for the hunter on a budget. Setups with a high Attraction Bonus and / or Cheese Effect are recommended when using Brie, but they will reduce your catch rate.
Gouda has a base attraction rate of about 70% in the Derr Dunes, which can be frustrating for hunters, but high gold rewards make it quite profitable in the long run. Setups with a high Attraction Bonus and / or Cheese Effect can offset this when using Gouda, but they will reduce your catch rate.
Super Brie boasts an impressive 99% attraction rate, allowing hunters to focus on the much needed power and luck of their trap without suffering any significant drawbacks.
General Strategies
All of the mice in the Derr Dunes are Physical mice, and many of them are quite strong, so a high power and high luck Physical trap will give the best results.
Physical Weapons are of normal effectiveness against all mice.
Hydro and Tactical Weapon types are completely ineffective against most of the mice, and only of normal effectiveness against the Black Widow, Healer, Trailblazer and Wordsmith mice, so are not advised.
Arcane and Shadow Weapon types are completely ineffective against most of the mice, and only of normal effectiveness against the Black Widow, so are not advised.
Draconic and Forgotten Weapon types are completely ineffective against all of the mice.
Normal Setup Options
All cheese costs have been removed from these figures, and only show earnings after the cheese has been purchased for ease of comparison.
| Weapon | Base | Shield? | Attraction Rate | Catch Rate | Points per Hunt | Gold per Hunt | Delicious Stones per Hunt | Cheese Used | Sample Size (Hunts) |
| RhinoBot | Tribal | Yes | 99.00% | 56.55% | 1,093.11 | 1,972.19 | 0.40 | 2,375 | 2,392 |
Limited Edition Setup Options
All cheese costs have been removed from these figures, and only show earnings after the cheese has been purchased for ease of comparison.
| Weapon | Base | Shield? | Attraction Rate | Catch Rate | Points per Hunt | Gold per Hunt | Delicious Stones per Hunt | Cheese Used | Sample Size (Hunts) |
| Chrome DrillBot | Candy Cane | Yes | 57.21% | 67.48% | 812.14 | 1,464.74 | 0.31 | 1,764 | 1,435 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Gingerbread | No | 56.74% | 62.04% | 713.00 | 1,304.21 | 0.28 | 1,172 | 1,142 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Gingerbread | Yes | 57.73% | 66.79% | 782.62 | 1,494.06 | 0.30 | 2,273 | 2,420 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Magma | No | 59.31% | 66.49% | 863.03 | 1,486.58 | 0.30 | 4,784 | 3,839 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Magma | Yes | 59.30% | 69.32% | 871.38 | 1,548.64 | 0.34 | 8,808 | 7,255 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Polar | No | 57.35% | 57.14% | 656.82 | 1,096.47 | 0.23 | 1,107 | 1,184 |
| Weapon | Base | Shield? | Attraction Rate | Catch Rate | Points per Hunt | Gold per Hunt | Delicious Stones per Hunt | Cheese Used | Sample Size (Hunts) |
| Christmas Cracker Trap | Candy Cane | Yes | 72.24% | 63.18% | 968.70 | 1,689.08 | 0.38 | 1,211 | 1,376 |
| Christmas Cracker Trap | Gingerbread | Yes | 71.57% | 57.41% | 757.49 | 1,411.32 | 0.32 | 1,675 | 1,896 |
| Christmas Cracker Trap | Magma | Yes | 72.72% | 62.95% | 990.45 | 1,656.61 | 0.38 | 1,126 | 1,173 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Candy Cane | Yes | 73.45% | 68.02% | 1,038.01 | 1,932.18 | 0.42 | 1,380 | 1,307 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Gingerbread | No | 66.58% | 59.46% | 805.36 | 1,471.52 | 0.30 | 1,750 | 2,008 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Gingerbread | Yes | 70.23% | 64.83% | 968.68 | 1,698.40 | 0.36 | 7,416 | 8,194 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Magma | No | 71.90% | 64.20% | 970.44 | 1,758.31 | 0.37 | 4,409 | 4,029 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Magma | Yes | 71.42% | 70.37% | 1,061.35 | 1,865.57 | 0.41 | 10,935 | 10,019 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Polar | No | 68.30% | 57.85% | 815.87 | 1,490.27 | 0.31 | 928 | 1,063 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Polar | Yes | 68.80% | 68.29% | 1,024.30 | 1,788.28 | 0.36 | 914 | 1,077 |
| Weapon | Base | Shield? | Attraction Rate | Catch Rate | Points per Hunt | Gold per Hunt | Delicious Stones per Hunt | Cheese Used | Sample Size (Hunts) |
| Chrome DrillBot | Candy Cane | Yes | 98.53% | 70.19% | 1,392.01 | 2,498.80 | 0.55 | 1,430 | 1,430 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Magma | No | 99.02% | 64.73% | 1,261.50 | 2,228.45 | 0.49 | 2,760 | 2,760 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Magma | Yes | 98.93% | 70.93% | 1,466.39 | 2,609.28 | 0.59 | 21,874 | 21,874 |
| RhinoBot | Magma | Yes | 99.11% | 59.03% | 1,192.47 | 2,067.00 | 0.45 | 2,574 | 2,576 |
| Weapon | Base | Shield? | Attraction Rate | Catch Rate | Points per Hunt | Gold per Hunt | Red Pepper Seeds per Hunt | Cheese Used | Sample Size (Hunts) |
| Chrome DrillBot | Magma | No | 98.61% | 40.79% | 2,548.20 | 2,840.74 | 0.48 | 2,735 | 2,735 |
| Chrome DrillBot | Magma | Yes | 98.88% | 44.64% | 2,901.98 | 3,172.83 | 0.54 | 22,321 | 22,321 |
Goals
Delicious Stones are required to make Crunchy Cheese, which is used to attract the Aged Mouse in Cape Clawed, and three mice in Derr Dunes, the Derr Chieftain Mouse, Gladiator Mouse and Guardian Mouse.
Delicious Stones are dropped as loot by the Grunt Mouse (upto 3), Healer Mouse, Mintaka Mouse, Renegade Mouse, Seer Mouse, Spellbinder Mouse (upto 2), Trailblazer Mouse and Healer Mouse, each mouse only drops up to 1 Delicious Stone with the two exceptions mentioned above.
The weaker the mouse is, the less likely they are to drop Delicious Stones, with the Renegade Mouse dropping 1 Delicious Stone in almost all cases.
Red Pepper Seeds are required to make a number of the Havarti Cheese used in the Jungle of Dread and Dracano, they are only dropped by the three mice in Derr Dunes that can only be attracted with Crunchy Cheese.
Red Pepper Seeds are dropped as loot by the Derr Chieftain Mouse (upto 3), Gladiator Mouse (upto 2) and Guardian Mouse (upto 1).
As with Delicious Stones, the weakest mouse (the Guardian) is the least likely to drop Red Pepper Seeds, while the Derr Chieftain almost always drops at least 1 Red Pepper Seed.
High power and high luck Physical traps are highly recommended when hunting these three mice.
The Derr Chieftain Mouse drops the Ancient Mangled Blueprint Piece, which is used for crafting the Ancient Box Trap.
The Derr Chieftain Mouse is only attracted to Crunchy Cheese, is not commonly encountered and is the most powerful mouse in the location, fortunately it will drop the Blueprints in most cases (unless you already have them in your inventory), so it is an unlucky hunter who has to catch more than two before receiving this loot.
High power and high luck Physical traps are highly recommended.
Derr Dunes is a good place to earn gold without first having to collect potions of any sort, but hunters are quite interested in knowing which cheese will earn them more gold, or gold more quickly.
At the time of writing (these figures are based on those at 19-Jan-10), the cost of Super Brie is about 1,500 gold per piece, Gouda is priced at 600 gold per piece and Brie at 200 gold per piece. Numbers above in the Setup Options section have been given without these prices included, to establish gold returns from using certain cheese, these have been factored in.
When using a trap with a low Cheese Effect, in this case, Chrome DrillBot and Magma Base with Golden Shield:
On a per hunt basis, cheaper cheese wins, Brie averages at about 1,300 GpH, Gouda at about 1,200 GpH and Super Brie at about 1,050 GpH. So cheaper cheese will provide gold returns sooner.
On a per cheese basis, Brie averages at about 1,050 GpC, Super Brie at about 1,050 GpC, and Gouda at about 1,100 GpC, making Gouda the more efficient long term choice.
When using a trap with a better Cheese Effect, these returns can be greatly increased, comparing the Chrome DrillBot and Magma Base with Gouda and Golden Shield to the same setup but using the Gingerbread Base instead we get the following results:
Magma Base gives about 1,200 GpH and 1,100 GpC, Gingerbread give about 1,150 GpH and 1,350 GpC, offering a slower gain in the short term, but much better results in the long term.
The Crunchy Cycle is hunting for Delicious Stones, then using those stones to craft Crunchy Cheese and hunting with that cheese as Crunchy offers higher points and gold returns than any other cheese in the Derr Dunes, and as such, is the best way to earn gold.
To work out the best way to earn gold in the Crunchy Cycle, we need to look at how quickly you can collect Delicious Stones using various Cheese to start with, then factor in the returns you could expect to see after using all the Crunchy. For the purposes of this, we’ll take a single cycle of collecting 30 Delicious Stones, and use those to make 20 Crunchy using Magic Essence, see below for more on this.
Setup: Chrome DrillBot / Magma Base / Shield
Crunchy, the results above show that it in 20 hunts we can expect to earn about 39,000 gold after taking off cost of crafting Crunchy (with Super Brie prices at 1,500), we can also expect to collect about 10.8 Red Seeds.
Brie, the results above show that it will take about 89 hunts to collect 30 Delicious Stones, and we can expect to earn about 115,000 gold after taking off cost of Brie at 200 gold per piece.
After we add in the Crunchy, we get a total profit of about 154,000 gold over 109 hunts, about 1,415 gold per hunt, and 0.10 Red Seeds per hunt.
Gouda, the results above show that it will take about 74 hunts to collect 30 Delicious Stones, and we can expect to earn about 90,000 gold after taking off cost of Gouda at 600 gold per piece.
After we add in the Crunchy, we get a total profit of about 129,000 gold over 94 hunts, about 1,375 gold per hunt, and 0.11 Red Seeds per hunt.
Super Brie, the results above show that it will take about 54 hunts to collect 30 Delicious Stones, and we can expect to earn about 55,000 gold after taking off cost of Super Brie at 1,500 gold per piece.
After we add in the Crunchy, we get a total profit of about 94,000 gold over 74 hunts, about 1,275 gold per hunt, and 0.15 Red Seeds per hunt.
We can see from this, the difference between the gold returns for Brie and Gouda isn’t that much, Brie still earns more, but Gouda brings in slightly more Red Seeds to be used for Havarti later.
Super Brie is still the lowest gold at the current price of 1,500, but does bring in significantly more Red Seeds, if the price of Super Brie is 1,350 or below, it begins to offer better returns than Gouda, and if it’s 1,300 or below, it offers better returns than Brie, so keep this in mind when shopping for Super Brie.
There are two ways to craft Crunchy, one produces 15 pieces, and the other requires 5 Magic Essence to craft 20 pieces, so which is better for earning gold?
Again this is something that relies on the price of Super Brie, and there are several ways to consider this.
If we look at gold returns per cheese, you can see that it’s worth buying Super Brie at any price lower than the return you make from Crunchy, as you will still make a profit.
If we look at gold returns per hunt, then the 15 piece recipe earns more per hunt if the price of Super Brie is over about 1,100 gold per piece.
If we look at the whole Crunchy Cycle, it’s obvious to see that the returns from Crunchy are significantly higher than those from other cheese, and so the 20 piece recipe earns more per hunt for any starting cheese used until the price reaches about 1,750 gold per piece.
Thank you to all who have contributed so far and will do so in the future.
This article includes survey results from 10-Jan-10 to 07-Feb-10.
Categorized as Analytics Articles
lovely, thanks for this!
Yet another awesome analysis. I do so love numbers and the crunching of them, then the revealing mysteries from their dust particulates… [drool].
Oh, sorry. Brilliant work and thank you for doing this!
thankzzorzzz
Please include Partybot/Magma stats esp. with Gouda and Brie. Those are very important statistics, because of the additional attraction rate this setup offers. Altrough the weapon is almost 1 year old, there are plenty of active hunters who own it.
Ivan, we’ll add more setups as we receive the hunts, I’ve been sent some older logs by someone who kept them before the DB crash, and will go through those soon.
Paul, if you need more PB logs I could provide some old ones of mine too.
…and as always: Thanks for the great work and effort you make!! Much appreciated.
Is there a reason to use the Gingerbread Base over the Polar Base when using the Chrome Drillbot? The Polar offers 50 more total power on the combo as well as having the same insanely fresh cheese effect. Am I missing something, or is it not analyzed because of a lack of logs to do it with?
I hope many people would see this so that the price of SB would drop
i dont know about the crunchy cheese usage part, i used 15 crunchy and only managed to catch 4 guardian mice, whereas the other 10 hunts failed at capturing and 9 of which were RED.
i was using Chrome Drillbot/Magma/Crunchy/Shield and i am hero.
so my catchrate was about 26.7%
Everytime one of your articles come out and I see it, I can’t help but smile. I’m very into the numbers of the game, so this is like eye-candy. Hahah.
Thanks for another great one. :)
Thanks for the extensive stats Paul! They’re pretty much in line with what most of us have been getting, even with smallish sample sizes (~400-500 hunts) of Crunchy data.
Was the base attraction rate all done with similar set-ups (ie set-ups with the same attraction)? I assume so, but just wanted to make sure :)
Would be great if we had Rhino/Crunchy and Chrome Drillbot/Tribal/Crunchy data to compare with as well, but I understand that we are lacking data for those set-ups.
Great article! I am disappointed that no analysis of the Christmas Cracker Trap was included, since it actually does very well in the Derr Dunes. I just finished a massive run there, CCT/Polar/Brie/Shield, here are my stats:
Inputs
Log size = 730 (60.83 pages of logs)
Cheese cost (pp) = 200
Key Stats
Number of hunts = 647
-> hourly check = 323; horn = 324 (own= 319, friends=5 )
Cheese used = 609
Number of attractions = 389
-> Attraction rate = 60.12% ±3.85% C.I.
Number of catches = 234
-> Catch rate per attraction = 60.15% ±4.99% C.I.
Net points earned = 534901
-> per hunt = 826.74
-> per cheese = 878.33
Net profit = 735010
-> per hunt = 1136.03
-> per cheese = 1206.91
Loot Breakdowns
delicious stones = 175
-> per hunt = .27
-> per cheese = 0.29
-> per catch = .75
On a per hunt basis it is obviously not top-notch, but the profit per cheese is very respectable. Add in the fact that the CCT was a free trap, and the only alternatives are/were very expensive, and I think it is clear that overall the CCT is a very lucrative option.
Has anybody else experimented with other bases/cheeses (magma/tribal/gouda) with the CCT? I’d be interested to see the results.
There’s now a whole host of new setups included in this article which will hopefully answer a lot of the questions above.
I would like to know whether anyone has done cct/gingerbread/crunchy runs as I do not have the Chrome Drillbot
erm can I ask, why would the gold per cheese/points per cheese be lower than gold per hunt/points per hunt?
I thought it would at least be the same, or it would be the same with extremely stale or more cheese effect? Do help confirm it please thanks
@Ganesh K.
I’ve only put up setups with at least 1,000 hunts submitted to our survey, so I imagine at some point in the future we’ll be able to add it.
@SomeH0w~©
In this case it’s because Brie and Gouda can have additional pieces stolen by the mice, which for some results has pushed the number of cheese used over the number of hunts.
Thank you for the great work, I really appreciated it. But can you put it into another format, like the Elub one? I think it is easier to see the difference that way.
@William
It’s my pleasure.
I’m trying out the new format in the Elub article and if the general consensus is that it’s preferred then I’ll change this and the Nerg article over to that.
New format – oh, yes please! And thanks so much for doing this!
Format has now been updated, latest results have been added, enjoy! :)
Chrome DrillBot Candy Cane Yes 74.14%
Chrome DrillBot Magma Yes 71.20%
how can the attraction for CC base be higher than the magma base?
magma has 5% attraction while CC does not have any.
perhaps its due to the low sample size on the CC base?
@Tannl
I’d imagine it’s due to the small sample size, the number do tend to change a lot even after 1,000 hunts, which is why we don’t put anything with a smaller sample.
Paul: I think the data for Rhino/CC is wrong, probably an error while changing the layout? I could have sworn it said Rhino/Tribal previously, and the attraction rate, catch rate and gold and points per hunt are all off :)
Paul: I think the Rhino/Candycane/SB+ data is wrong. I could have sworn it said Rhino/Tribal previously, and the attraction rate, catch rate and gold/points per hunt are all off :)
@Zhihong
Thanks for spotting that, it’s been fixed now.
Well I think the catch rate with crunchy for Chillbot is a bit off, as my catch rate now apparently is 13/50, you can check out my log here:
http://apps.facebook.com/mousehunt/hunterprofile.php?snuid=1844380836
And I started with 60 Crunchy
okay, so it was 15/60, which translates into 25%
@Ze Xuan
Unfortunately in tough areas such as these, you’ll see a lot of variation over small batches of hunting, I’m personally using the same setup as you right now, and have almost the same number of catches over half the number of hunts.
Great article but one thing you should consider is stale cheese. Stale cheese can be annoying to farm so using brie or gouda allows you to collect stale cheese for use in the FG whereas stale superbrie although rare is pretty much useless unless after crafting a rhinobot.
can you compare derr using chillbot/magma/brie and nerg using 2010/magma/gouda both with shield?
I am asking this because in derr using brie gives the most profit. There was a thread in mousehunt that brie beats gouda in profit making in derr.
JMS: The data you’re asking for is there, right here in this article, and the one on Nerg.
Paul: I agree with Gary T that you could mention stale cheese at least somewhere in the article, maybe a small paragraph near the end when comparing profit per hunt for the entire cycle? Eg Brie: xxx profit per hunt, xxx stale chese. Gouda: xxx profit per hunt, xx stale cheese. SB+: xxx profit per hunt, 0 stale cheese. Or something like that :)
I just wanted to know, have you subtracted the SB+ cost from the data, if yes, then what cost did you took?
I’m wondering the performance between CDB/tribal/sb+ against CDB/candy/sb+ since i don’t have magma base :)?
I’m amazed at the results above – Chillbot/CANDY CANE BASE/Gouda, with shield, is getting the most gold per hunt (and the most delicious stones).
Can I check if “gold per hunt” is the same as “profit per hunt”, since cheese costs have been subtracted?
@Angela
No, gold per hunt is what you will earn from hunting, it doesn’t factor in the cost of cheese.
Paul, do you have any result of hunting in derr using Wooden Base with Target and Gouda/Brie? I’m wondering if the high attraction bonus of this Base can do some good?
@Linh
We do have a few, and those early results are showing an improved attraction rate, but the catch rate is lower by about an equal amount, so it’s showing similar or worse gold and points returns.